Wolven ([info]wolven) wrote,
@ 2008-12-20 17:35:00
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Current mood:talking about shit.
Current music:CNN

What kind of a magician are you?
Now, Widgett asks a very important question: What Kind of Magician am I? Alan Moore? John Constantine? Mike Gravel? Doug Henning? Penn and Teller (Derren Brown is somewhat in this category, as well)? Here are the key differences:

Alan Moore: There is no line between the physical and mental realms, but what we create. Magic is Language and Spelling is exactly that. Every thought, word, and deed are as potentially real as any other, because they all start the same place. We change the world through words.

John Constantine: Everything is a con. Every trick, every spell, every demon raised and god fought is about who has the better poker face. If you can tap yourself into the flow of things around you, you can make a little luck for yourself, for a while. Anyone caught in your backlash and wake, however, may be seriously fucked.

Mike Gravel: Combat Magic. Magic is for Getting Things Done. More often than not, those Things are Killing People. Magic, for Gravel, is a pragmatic, sympathetic interplay. The right tool, for the right Job.

Doug Henning: Stage, flamboyance, and distance. Effects are designed to not encounter the audience, one on one, and are stated as illusions.

Penn and Teller (and Derren Brown, to an extent): Close & distance magic, relying on a known quantity: How People Generally React To Things. Using the psychology of expectation and reaction to change perception and create effects. Also usually couched as illusions.

To respond to @TGMLeto's questions, there aren't many examples of sheer Will Working, in modern pop-culture renditions of magicians. There ARE those who simply concentrate on a thing, & produce the effect they want, but almost everyone uses some form of intermediary method. Spells, rituals, drawn sigils, hypersigils, or simply The Act of Bullshitting, there's usually a step between conception/desire & attainment.

Now, think on this: Moore, [Grant] Morrison, Pete Carroll, & many others all regard magic as real, as a way of using thought & will to change world. Penn &Teller, Brown, Henning, & most illusionists, today, regard what they do as manipulation of perception based on psychological rules. The first group will agree with that, to an extent, but most will also then say that this perceptual shift can Change Reality As We Know It. This is because, either:

A) There is no difference between the mental & physical,

B) There is a direct effect the operation of the brain can have on quantum states

C)There's a union/interplay of separate states of being, at the level of conception & will,
@strixus noted, C-1) "we grossly misunderstand the nature of perception, the universe, and consciousness." OR

D) Some vastly complicated combination of A-C

Now @Jerem_Morrow thinks this is just calling what we do, everyday, "Magic." And I agree. I think that magic is, at base, Paying Attention. Seeing patterns that may not be seen by others, & using those patterns, before anyone else. Linking chains of cause & effect, mental & physical, seeing and using them in ways that perhaps no one ever has, or that were, years ago. It's a matter of Perspective.

I think that magic is about Different Things: kinds of cause/effect, ways of thinking, & ways of using the things around us, everyday.

There. That's what kind of magician I am.




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[info]necrophonic
2008-12-21 04:09 am UTC (link)
"B) There is a direct effect the operation of the brain can have on quantum states"

Is this referring to the particle/wave electron double slit experiments, or something else?

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[info]wolven
2008-12-21 04:41 pm UTC (link)
To that, and other theoretical states, in Carroll's work. I haven't gotten to read all of it, but he definitely feels there's a direct connection, there.

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[info]necrophonic
2008-12-22 07:43 am UTC (link)
Have any links in his direction? I've looked into the double slit thing a few times, because I got into a debate with another philosophy class buddy of mine about it.

I haven't heard of Carroll's work, at least not that I know of.

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[info]wolven
2008-12-27 04:58 am UTC (link)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_J._Carroll

[info]unknownbinaries has recently been reading this: http://www.eruditor.com/books/item/9781869928650.html.en

I'm hoping to get to it, when she's done.

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By <lj user="beautifulpyre">
[info]unknownbinaries
2008-12-22 04:43 am UTC (link)
Read This.

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Re: By &lt;lj user=&quot;beautifulpyre&quot;&gt;
[info]wolven
2008-12-22 04:48 am UTC (link)
That is really good, very important stuff.

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Re: By &lt;lj user=&quot;beautifulpyre&quot;&gt;
[info]unknownbinaries
2009-03-03 05:43 am UTC (link)
And since people are revisiting old posts, and I thought I'd asked this, but obviously didn't...which do you think I am?

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Re: By &lt;lj user=&quot;beautifulpyre&quot;&gt;
[info]wolven
2009-03-03 05:59 am UTC (link)
I think you're a combination of all of the above. Starting at "Gravel Without The Killing," most likely, and working from there.

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